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uh-oh

  • Sep. 28th, 2008 at 9:56 PM
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Doomsday Book, Connie Willis

[info]shezan warned me that this wasn't as funny as To Say Nothing of the Dog, and - well. It isn't.



But the last thing I expected was religious fervour. I came away feeling a sort of honour about people who served what they perceived to be god with all their ability, which is not something I feel a lot. Or ever. (Except during parts of Carpe Jugulum.)

'No one sent it,' Kivrin said. 'It's a disease. It's no one's fault. God would help us if He could, but He ..." He what? Can't hear us? Has gone away? Doesn't exist?

"He cannot come," she finished lamely.

"And we must act in His stead?" Roche said.


I mean, this was it. Before the true greed and corruption of the Renaissance and beyond, grubbing in the dirt with the other lowly in the eyes of God was how it worked. (Although I never did find out what Kivrin's stance on God was ... more on that later.)

... he said, without opening his eyes, "I feared you had gone."

She wiped the crusted blood by his mouth. "I would not go to Scotland without you."

"Not Scotland," he said. "To heaven."


This made me cry, and remember the kids who saw a vision of the Virgin Mary in - was it France? Or Medjugorie? I read an account of it once (which I got from a monastery, and hence was probably a little biased in their favour - and that of the vision). The simple, innocent, complete belief.

This cloak, in spite of its rabbit-fur lining, wasn't warm at all. How had people survived the Little Ice Age dressed only in cloaks like this? How had the rabbits survived?

That was pretty funny.

I just ... I can't grasp the point of this book. In TSNOTD, it was about the extinction of cats and how tiny acorns grow into mighty oaks and it's always the butler and the interesting peculiarities of time travel. Also romance, which was sadly lacking here. 'Sadly,' because Willis does romance really well when she wants to. A five second interval about Roche's awestruck adoration for Kivrin didn't really fill the hole. Maybe it was about how true historians record history as it happens, no matter the peril to themselves. Yet this wasn't real history - Agnes et al were as much figments of Willis' imagination as everyone else. She went to a lot of effort to set up interesting dynamics in the family only to kill them off, one by one. There was nowhere near the level of complexity in TSNOTD, which was essentially a mystery novel.

Kivrin's motivations were never properly elucidated. I expected some kind of nemesis because she was so keen to go to the Middle Ages - um, why? Of all times? Gross - against Mr Dunworthy's better judgement. The punch of her being sent to the wrong year was ripped away by the blurb - my hatred for blurbs knows no bounds! - so I spent half the book going, 'Dude, I know she's in the middle of the Black Death. Get on with it already.' I have no idea why half a chapter was wasted on the difficulty in getting the translator to work, when it worked fine after five minutes and its dysfunction had no impact on the plot whatsoever.

As well, it wasn't funny, as [info]shezan rightly pointed out. There was a lot of 'Dunworthy went here and then there and did this and saw Finch and saw Montoya and saw Colin and did something else.' It was ... superfluous, added pages to the book, and in light of the invention of mobile phones and the internet, is a conceit that aged poorly.

Not to mention that, because there was so much action, there was relatively little character development. I'll never forget the screamlets from TSNOTD. I spent hours with both Kivrin and Mr Dunworthy, yet I saw nothing of their real thoughts. I wondered if it was going to go in a Kivrin/Dunworthy direction early on, but there wasn't even that. Weird.

Finally, I thought she said in TSNOTD that you could only bring contemporary materials through the net. So why was Colin able to bring a pocket torch, a locator and aspirin to the Dark Ages?



Does anyone know if all her books are about the same people/place/time machine? Not that I mind reading them out of order, I'd just like to know. Now with added spoilers of same!

Previously, on Book Glomp 2008:
Middlemarch | Invisible Monsters | A Thousand Splendid Suns | Love in the Time of Cholera | Oscar and Lucinda | Kim | Breakfast at Tiffany's | Atonement | To the Lighthouse | On the Road | Brideshead Revisited | Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance | Bonjour Tristesse | A Passage to India | Three Men in a Boat | Vile Bodies | Prozac Nation | The Heart of the Matter | Jinx; Airhead

Comments

( 24 comments — Leave a comment )
[info]schemingreader wrote:
Sep. 28th, 2008 09:22 pm (UTC)
I listened to this one as an audiobook. I think it was either the first or the second book I took in this way. I found it enormously frustrating because I couldn't read it faster. I also thought it was emphatically a romance, a doomed one, between Roche and Kivrin. She gradually gets to know and admire him and he thinks she's an angel, and then there is this horrible, tragic ending where she witnesses his painful and disgusting death. The closest they come to sex is her attempt to lance boils in his groin. I wept through that whole scene--his confession of his attraction to her and her delusional dream of saving him.

No, it's not funny at all, but it was damned good writing. She made me care that these fictional characters, who would be dead by now anyway, had to die.

I wonder how you read it as a med student? There was this whole thing about doctors and what they could and couldn't do to help people. What was the name of the wonderful doctor back in Oxford? It moves me, how much she loves doctors. It's kind of how I feel about librarians.

I didn't find the book religious so much as vaguely spiritual. I wonder whether Connie Willis is religious, since some of her other books that I've read have had a vague spiritual tinge. I think only To Say Nothing Of The Dog is in the same universe as this one (I also read them out of order!) In Passage, another book of hers I read (with another doctor as heroine) there is a question about life after death and the persistence of the soul. So I wonder. Her books do feel Christian to me, but more in a cultural fabric sort of way.
[info]scoradh wrote:
Sep. 28th, 2008 09:47 pm (UTC)
Yeah, see, I only copped to that romance RIGHT THEN. And while it was deeply moving RIGHT THEN, I didn't appreciate any of the build-up because I didn't think there was any. TSNOTD was much cooler because it had the two contemps and the two time-travellers and nothing was Doomed.

She certainly understands a lot about medicine and the whole non-explained Pandemic was interesting. It would be pretty awesome to have antivirals at all, let alone ones you can find the serotype for and manufacture in DAYS. A bit over-hopeful, methinks.

I think she realistically presented how people back in the Dark Ages felt about religion. If people believe in an afterlife that's fine - and in god, that's fine - she never thrusts it down our throats, which is good. It's very much 'and this is how the character felt,' rather than 'the author.' Which is probably why she succeeded in moving me.
[info]schemingreader wrote:
Sep. 28th, 2008 09:52 pm (UTC)
I could see their love coming, though. The Christmas sermon when he looks at her and says what he does about God sending angels in the end of days--I knew that he had witnessed her descent. Her thoughts about how much more worthy he was than everyone else--that was a dead giveaway. To me she seemed really young, like someone who would understand that she was in love only once it was way too late to back away.
[info]scoradh wrote:
Sep. 28th, 2008 09:55 pm (UTC)
When she assumed he didn't know where the drop was, I BELIEVED her, dammit. I thought maybe he was a time-traveller too, in which case I would've been ahoy sexytiems, but when it became obvious that he wasn't I also abandoned that thought. Oops.
[info]schemingreader wrote:
Sep. 28th, 2008 10:02 pm (UTC)
They were both way too serious about their projects to have had sex with each other, even if they could have. That's why it was so clear to me that she had witnessed the death of the love of her life. It kind of reminded me of an article I read in the 1970s by a woman who had traveled to China and fell in love with a man there. Through the whole piece it seemed desultory, accidental, like an affair--and then suddenly, she was planning to wait for him until he would be allowed to leave the country.

I don't mind books that make me cry, but I'm really glad she wrote a silly light one in the same universe.

[info]murklins wrote:
Sep. 29th, 2008 07:25 am (UTC)
Connie Willis sings in her church choir, I believe. :)

Oh, and went to verify my shaky memory, I found an excellent quote here: http://www.adherents.com/people/pw/Connie_Willis.html
[info]schemingreader wrote:
Sep. 29th, 2008 08:41 am (UTC)
She just won a Hugo for a story about space aliens and church choirs. It reflects the non-denominational spirituality of the other work (and of that quote.) I read the story "All Seated On the Ground" online, but now I can't find it to link you. If I do later I'll come back and leave the link in a comment.
[info]murklins wrote:
Sep. 30th, 2008 12:26 am (UTC)
Thanks so much for the tip off. I found it here, but it may be just an excerpt? I haven't had a chance to read it yet to see. If it is just an excerpt, it's a rather huge one.

I love how so many of her stories get published online. I always end up reading them in the short story collections, anyway, but I prefer not having to wait.
[info]harriet_vane wrote:
Sep. 28th, 2008 09:25 pm (UTC)
They aren't all in this universe, but I think several are. I much preferred To Say Nothing of the Dog, but then, I prefer light-hearted and hilarious.
[info]scoradh wrote:
Sep. 28th, 2008 09:42 pm (UTC)
Ditto. Not that this wasn't absorbing, interesting, well-written, etc, but - I'd never want to read it twice.
[info]oneminutemovies wrote:
Sep. 28th, 2008 10:16 pm (UTC)
I think Passage is the most impressive of her books but it's not as much fun to read as TSNOTD. It creates a frustrating mood which I thought contributed in the end to the overall experience, but I'm afraid you might have the same feeling of impatience as with Doomsday Book. I know from the experience of having recommended it to people that it's not everybody's cup of tea.
[info]scoradh wrote:
Sep. 29th, 2008 07:24 pm (UTC)
I didn't actually feel impatient with Doomsday Book, or at least not till the end. She's an absorbing writer. I suppose I was just expecting to fall in love again, like I did with TSNOTD.
[info]allyndra wrote:
Sep. 28th, 2008 10:28 pm (UTC)
I love To Say Nothing of the Dog and reread it often, while Doomsday Book has been sitting on my shelf gathering dust sine the first reading, even though I thought it was good. It probably says something about the shallowness of my mind, but my favorite part was the line about the Christmas service when they read about Caesar laying on his people a tax hike. :o)

These are the only two books dealing with the time-travelling historians, but there's a short story called "Fire Watch," which was written before either book and is set in this 'verse. I didn't actually care for it, but if you want to be a completionist, you should check it out. I've heard that she's writing a third book in this 'verse, but I don't know for sure.

I did enjoy Bellwether (in which the heroine studies trends and fads) very much, and I kind of liked Remake (in which the hero removes prohibited content from old movies). Both of them are the kind of books that pop into my head frequently. Lincoln's Dreams was interesting, but it will never be my favorite of her books.
[info]scoradh wrote:
Sep. 29th, 2008 07:28 pm (UTC)
I wish that had been expanded a little more! I got that the Re-Reformed were some mad modernistic cult or whatever, but that was a huge comic vein left untapped.

I certainly will read more of her books, because it's not often I find someone as accomplished a writer as she is. Swapped to Doug Coupland atm though, so it's all good. :D
[info]parthenia14 wrote:
Sep. 28th, 2008 10:55 pm (UTC)
I liked this - well, I liked the realistic portrayal of medieval Britain, but it was bloody depressing and as you say there is bog all development, really.

I bought TSNOTD recently, but haven't started it. I read Bellwether and completely loved it though.
[info]scoradh wrote:
Sep. 29th, 2008 07:32 pm (UTC)
It was interesting. That was mainly it!

OMG MY LOVE FOR TSNOTD KNOW NO BOUNDS. YOU WILL REGRET LEAVING IT TO MOULDER EVEN FOR A SINGLE SECOND! Or. Something.
[info]kestrelsparhawk wrote:
Sep. 29th, 2008 01:12 am (UTC)
Willis
About half of Willis' books are complete downers, though in many ways brilliant. I heard her read "Lincolns' Dreams" (a piece of it) and fell in love with it, so I've read quite a few. I do recommend that; it's sort of a time travel novel, though nothing like the Dog universe' kind. Lots of research on Lee -- she's committed to research, and I'm a nerd.

Her other funny books... well, I can only think of Bellwether offhand, and I was really disappointed in it; very shallow, and while one (again) loves the research, it's more like a cultural manifesto than a cultural satire.
[info]scoradh wrote:
Sep. 29th, 2008 07:37 pm (UTC)
Re: Willis
(I kind of wondered if the bits with the translator were simply so she could show off her Middle English homework.)

I was just expecting something other than what I got. TSNOTD is so complex and layered and yet at the same time light-hearted and joyful; a real masterpiece. I am kind of boggling that Doomsday won the Nebula and the other thing; what was it about the book that merited it such accolades? I think I missed that.
[info]naatz wrote:
Sep. 29th, 2008 10:43 am (UTC)
Completely random person passing by;

Finally, I thought she said in TSNOTD that you could only bring contemporary materials through the net. So why was Colin able to bring a pocket torch, a locator and aspirin to the Dark Ages?

Because it wouldn't matter. When you bring all of that stuff to a place where everybody is dead, there's nobody who can see it. IIRC, that's also why Kivrin ended up in the Black Death timeperiod, in a village where everybody died; because that's the closest to time she wanted to go, but the first she wouldn't have the chance to change things to thoroughly.

On another note, Bellwether is fantastic, and Passage is an unreadable mess. At least Doomsday is readable and with nice parts.

~~moving on~

|Meduza|
[info]scoradh wrote:
Sep. 29th, 2008 07:39 pm (UTC)
Ah. I didn't catch that, myself. In TSNOTD there's quite a big fuss about it; the whole plot hinges on whether or not you can do that. So.

I'll be reading them all eventually, but forewarned is forearmed!
[info]shezan wrote:
Sep. 29th, 2008 11:10 am (UTC)
Well, in the Middle Ages you expect to have the centrality of religion. That's what they were pretty much about. Willis is a Christian, which you find in interesting ways in Passage (which I also loved.) Do warn for spoilers in the comments in an ETA, perhaps?
[info]scoradh wrote:
Sep. 29th, 2008 07:40 pm (UTC)
Except that the last time I learned about the Middle Ages I was fourteen, and it basically consisted of: THE RATS DID IT. :D

I didn't think there were any spoilers, but sure I'll warn anyway.
[info]shezan wrote:
Sep. 29th, 2008 07:57 pm (UTC)
... the comment telling Roche dies...
[info]scoradh wrote:
Sep. 29th, 2008 07:59 pm (UTC)
Oh, right.

I just assume anyone who's reading the review in the first place will know there's spoilers about it, because it would be hard to discuss it without spoiling it. (Also lj cut!) But there's a warning now, anyway.
( 24 comments — Leave a comment )

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