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03 August 2009 @ 11:18 am
angel apologists need not apply  
Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Seasons 1-7

I am SO PISSED I'm barely coherent. I want to find Joss Whedon and take him by his lapels and SHAKE HIM TO DEATH. HE KILLED MY TWO FAVOURITE CHARACTERS.

First there was Riley, coming in and screwing up their sexy times, and then Angel AND SHE KISSED HIM, WHYWHYWHY. That whole schtick about ooh in a few years we can be together WHAT WAS THAT. What are her criteria for finding Angel superior to Spike? Angel who is 'dull as a table lamp and with entirely differnet colouring'? HE IS DULL. AND BUILT LIKE A BRICK SHITHOUSE ONLY LESS ATTRACTIVE. Spike got his SOUL BACK for Buffy; Angel's was just a convenient curse. Angel killed people too while purportedly 'good' - does anyone remember Miss Carpenter? Angel also killed more people in total seeing as he's even OLDER than Spike. I DON'T GET IT I DON'T GET IT AND I'M SERIOUSLY UPSET. I couldn't sleep for ages last night, I read a whole book. You'd think Chuck Palahniuk writing about porn would be a sufficient distraction from anything, BUT YOU WOULD BE WRONG. Angel was her teenage boyfriend, they were together for all of five minutes, he never showed any character development or personality and and and


My favourite season was definitely S6. It was way more interesting to have human bad guys and there was more room for emotional sagas. JK should watch the finale and learn how 'winning through the power of love' is REALLY done. Also, when Giles kicked in the door? MEGA. And I thought Spike was trying to get his chip taken out and got given a soul by mistake, which was soooooo awesome, but the fact that he did it for Buffy is even more so. I loved the Spike/Buffy storyline from the moment he told her her hair was stupid. They are the only couple in the entire SHOW whose relationship was actually shown in visual and dialogue.

I don't see why Faith got to keep her lover. I don't care about Faith. Or Wood. And I hate that Buffy and Xander were both laughing minutes after Spike and Anya DIED HORRIBLY. FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU.
Current Mood: crushedcrushed
girl; obsessed: other - purple bootscomplications_g on August 3rd, 2009 10:25 am (UTC)
LOLOL. Oh, bb.

I love and hate Buffy depending on what episode I'm currently watching, it's all so insane.

But yeah, I really loved Spike and Buffy too. And season 6 is also my favourite! :D I love the musical episode, so so awesome!

I was really sad about Anya though. :(((
every Starbucks should have a polar bear: bbb ryanscoradh on August 10th, 2009 01:07 pm (UTC)
The musical episode is one I remember intially seeing on TV. I wasn't impressed the first go round - UNTIL Spike made a 'fuck this shit' face and stalked off. And Buffy followed. And they kissed!

Of course, I didn't realise then that she spends her time alternating between blowing him and blowing him off. Meh. It was kind of cute to watch the commentary by Joss, though. Watching it felt like he'd always wanted to make a musical and just never got the chance, and that turned out to be true!
(no subject) - complications_g on August 10th, 2009 03:25 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Sarahtwopennystar on August 3rd, 2009 10:27 am (UTC)
Oh my god, I thought I was the only person in the world who loved Spike so much more than Angel. When he died at the end I was devastated.

And I loved season six too :)
every Starbucks should have a polar bearscoradh on August 10th, 2009 01:22 pm (UTC)
Hahaha, everyone on this post seems to be in agreement with us! (Maybe because of the header requesting for things to jive that way...)

I kept seeing his face dissolving for hours afterwards. DDD:
S.P Vinterspvinter on August 3rd, 2009 10:49 am (UTC)
AMEN SISTER! I remember when I was in high school and Buffy first aired here in Sweden. I had suck EPIC bitchfights with one of my friends over Spike vs. Angel it was ridiculous, but I still maintain that I was right and my friend was wrong, wrong, wrong oh so very wrong. Spike has always been superior to Angel in every way. He has so much more personality! He's fun! And he's so passionate! When he's in love with someone he really loves them with his whole being, I can't see how any girl would chose emo!boy over him, seriously. And still both Buffy and Drusilla do. Them girls are crazy, I tell you...
every Starbucks should have a polar bearscoradh on August 10th, 2009 01:25 pm (UTC)

It is clear that the solution is slash. I mean, I could totally go for some Spike/Xander or Spike/Andrew - Andrew being another character who grew on me but no one in the actual show. It got to be annoying, because he was trying so hard and being actually funny and no one would give him a chance. D:

In conclusion YES, we are right, and your friend clearly has some kind of neural fault in her 'romantic hero requirement' wiring
Blindmouse: Lyn-Z's bassblindmouse on August 3rd, 2009 10:55 am (UTC)
... on the other hand, if you are sad about Spike, you should watch at least the first half of Angel season 5?

Heh, I thought the soul thing was a mistake too; I got seriously turned around when Season 7 started and it was all deliberate. (And emo!Spike! With the curly hair! Whee ♥)
RedOrchidredorchids on August 3rd, 2009 12:05 pm (UTC)
The soul thing as shown in S7 especially makes NO SENSE AT ALL. I like how Angel (the show) comes back to this and makes it a bit more coherent by showing how Angel, Angelus and Liam-the-human are really just different spins of the same person. (And the same with Spike. I loved when they spent all that time on BOTH Buffy and Angel showing how he's always been a genuinely good person to the people he loves. Why they would just take all of that stuff and bodyslam it into the ground in S7 is beyond me. And don't even get me started on the "good vs evil" thing. Or the "attempted rape" in Seeing red. Grr.)
(no subject) - scoradh on August 10th, 2009 01:26 pm (UTC) (Expand)
a work in progresswintersjuly on August 3rd, 2009 11:06 am (UTC)
lakjdslkajdla MY GOD I TOTALLY AGREE. SPIKE AND ANYA > ANGEL AND THE REST OF THE BUFFY CAST lkjadkljKLJSFLKkljslfds trust joss to kill off my favourites ):
every Starbucks should have a polar bearscoradh on August 10th, 2009 01:38 pm (UTC)
It's pretty daft, but I went through an intense two days of hating his guts. Even though he is responsible for much of what is awesome in modern scifi. NOW I understand what people really mean by having something 'Jossed', and what that term shot immediately into fandom canon.
RedOrchidredorchids on August 3rd, 2009 12:00 pm (UTC)

With you all the way. I've been a hard-core Buffy fan since the show started and I can't even count the hours I've spent bitching about some of the insanely crappy things that happen in the end of S6 and all of S7. First half of S6, is my absolute favourite. I love that the characters get to be nuanced there. Too bad S7 pulls them all back to cardboard. Meh.

You should head over to anaross's LJ. She writes totally great things on this. Lots of good analysis. Also theohara is made of awesome. Check out her memories section. Pure gold.
RedOrchidredorchids on August 3rd, 2009 12:09 pm (UTC)
this is one of my favourites:
(no subject) - redorchids on August 3rd, 2009 12:59 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - scoradh on August 10th, 2009 01:39 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - redorchids on August 10th, 2009 10:56 pm (UTC) (Expand)
bitchplzscenesalsa on August 3rd, 2009 12:08 pm (UTC)

I get why some people hate on Spike (attempted rape = way not cool), but Angel wasn't exactly a...well, angel either. And I agree with you, Spike >>>> Angel.

Aw, I liked Faith. You know who I didn't give a fuck about? The three stooges (ie the guys who killed Tara, etc; I don't remember their names). Not just because they killed Tara, I already didn't like them at that point, they just got on my nerves.
RedOrchidredorchids on August 3rd, 2009 12:39 pm (UTC)
The so-called "attempted rape" (really, writers, WTAF???) still has me SEETHING at this show. ESPECIALLY how it was used in S7 to completely throw everything around when it came to good and evil just because it was somehow convenient. Grrr!!!

Speaking of, here are some excellent metas on that. :-)



(no subject) - scoradh on August 10th, 2009 01:41 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - scoradh on August 10th, 2009 02:02 pm (UTC) (Expand)
tell me your heart doesn't race for a hurricanejocondite on August 3rd, 2009 12:45 pm (UTC)

YOUR OPINIONS ARE GOOD AND YOU SHOULD FEEL GOOD. YES ON SPIKE, YES ON SPIKE/BUFFY (seriously, they were the OTP that got my teenage self into fandom), AND NO ON KILLING ANYA AND SPIKE. S7 and chunks of S6 don't exist to me.
every Starbucks should have a polar bearscoradh on August 10th, 2009 02:03 pm (UTC)
:DDDD *is proud* Now I want some epic Spike/Buffy, up to and including white picket fences and fat babies (Joss reeeeeeeeally has a thing for fat babies, looking at you, Inara). However the way people write Spike's accent phonetically is undoubtedly going to grate on my nerves ... still, any pointers?
jehntjehnt on August 3rd, 2009 01:06 pm (UTC)
Agh of course you post this when I'm on te road and can't realy read it!

Other than to say: lol you like spike!? LOL.

(and don't worry, he's not dead. Or, well, not deader than usual. He comes back in angel season 5)
every Starbucks should have a polar bearscoradh on August 10th, 2009 02:04 pm (UTC)
Are you telling me you DON'T? I know your bf's nickname is Robot, sweetie, but preferring Angel to Spike is taking things a little TOO far!

\o/ for that :DDD
allyndra: Xander comicallyndra on August 3rd, 2009 02:05 pm (UTC)
I think we can take it as read that Spike is awesome, but OMG, I am so tired of seeing Anya bashed. I love Anya. I found her amusing and fun, and then I watched "The Body," and she just won me over completely.

I don't hate Buffy and Xander for joking at the end, because that's what they do. Even when they're in horrible danger or pain, they (especially Xander) joke. Still, thank God for fic that let me see Xander grieving and recovering.
every Starbucks should have a polar bearscoradh on August 10th, 2009 02:06 pm (UTC)
I LOVEDLOVEDLOVED Anya! She had some of the best lines in the show - observe:

You wore pink.
Those were entrails.

She had such a distinctive dialogue, man, I adored it. Why on earth did people bash her? Or do you mean the other characters? Yeah, it was weird how any character who was interesting or funny (Xander, Andrew, Spike, Anya) was always come down on because of it. Xander was forever apologising for his one liners and stuff. WHY?

I think she was the best part of the Body and Joyce's death eps period.
someone's always looking for DB Cooper: hopes dashednumena on August 3rd, 2009 09:30 pm (UTC)
every Starbucks should have a polar bearscoradh on August 10th, 2009 02:07 pm (UTC)
wayoffbasewayoffbase on August 3rd, 2009 11:46 pm (UTC)
Umm, basically, AMEN.

every Starbucks should have a polar bearscoradh on August 10th, 2009 02:12 pm (UTC)
Signed, sealed and delivered, sister!
and that was the beginning of fairiesnyx_nox on August 4th, 2009 04:57 am (UTC)

I quite liked Angel (I still like him, don't get me wrong, but mostly because he's Angel the broody broodster) when I was whatever age I was when the show started and I had underdeveloped taste - but I have loved Spike from the moment he appeared on screen, he is the most awesome.

&Anya; ♥;__;♥
every Starbucks should have a polar bearscoradh on August 10th, 2009 02:13 pm (UTC)
WORDY MCWORD. Spike essentially IS sweet, it was in his original nature. Whereas Angel's original nature was ... I can't remember well, but basically alcoholic idiot probably covers it.

At least you had that? I hated Angel from the get-go, which made the first three seasons and every time he turned up to throw a spanner in the works and 'I'LL WAIT A FEW YEARS BB' exceptionally painful to watch.
daybreaqdaybreaq on August 5th, 2009 06:38 am (UTC)
Oh, Spike was so much a better than Angel. William was also a better person than Liam was if you look at their backstories. Oh, poor William was a bit of a geek; but he was sweet. And to this day I'm not sure how much we were supposed to accept the whole any vampire without a soul is pure evil rap. There were clearly degrees and some vampires were clearly more evil. And souless "Angelus" was clearly more evil than souless Spike ever was. I'm not quite sure what the "soul" was anyway. I'm not sure if Whedon knew either adorable atheist ("I don't believe in the sky bully.") that he is. The soul seemed to better connect the individual with his conscience. However, Spike sure seemed to feel bad about stuff in an entirely unselfish way long before he got his soul back. In my mind, Spike was the special vampire. Angel was just your average evil garden variety vampire who happened to get cursed by a gypsy. I totally agree that *choosing* and fighting to get his soul back is much more important. Souless Angelus *never* wants his soul back. I think the very fact Spike does not have a split personality means he was the special one.

And, seemingly ironically, I'm going to tell you that you need to watch the "Angel" series now. I know you are thinking, "I don't like the character. Why should I watch a series where he's the star?" But, you slog through all those books you hate (And I honestly don't think you'll hate it anyway.) ... and it's part of the whole story and I'm really tempted to spoil you but I know I shouldn't. Not that that series ended with anything resolved or anything but still ...
every Starbucks should have a polar bearscoradh on August 10th, 2009 02:15 pm (UTC)

That's just it! And I'm pretty sure - although I'm sure people who've meta'd more extensively could tell me otherwise - that the way Spike got his soul back meant he could get with the sexy times without losing it again. At least, I took it that way.

I like the idea of a soul connecting to the conscience! Or maybe it was a way of returning them to the lives they lead pre-death and vampirism. The fact that you're immortal, don't have to pay for food and very few things can hurt you must surely change your mindset drastically. Perhaps by soul they mean humanity. (Oh Joss! Sky bully!)

And yes, I enjoyed the fact that Spike came to terms with the lack of killin' and so on by himself; how he eventually turned himself around mainly because of the chip, but also because he decided to. And for love! It maybe should have made him less insane in S7, but S7 was pretty stupid all round.

Oh, I don't mind being spoiled for the fact that Spike is alive(ish) in that! It means I can read fic without thinking it's been Jossed. I still don't feel up to watching a whole five seasons of Angel the stuttering emo man, though.
(no subject) - daybreaq on August 11th, 2009 06:55 am (UTC) (Expand)