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25 May 2005 @ 08:51 pm
All I want is a room somewhere ...  
Please to tell me why 'cliche' is such an evil, evil word?

Or, if you want it another way, which may or may not be related --

'Why H/D shippers REHEEALLY need to stop kidding themselves'.
Current Mood: crushedgrizzly
Current Music: 'Breakfast at Tiffany's', Deep Blue Something
Insufferable, man.: slytherincynicalpirate on May 25th, 2005 01:02 pm (UTC)
*embraces against considerable bosom* Clearly the bosom is not mine, though. Because, really, what is there to consider? I will embrace you against the bosom of your choice.

*is aghast at self*

Now that I've got that out of my system...

You are going over the beta, yes? How many days have we got?
every Starbucks should have a polar bearscoradh on May 25th, 2005 01:05 pm (UTC)
Okay, then. *grabs Anjelina Jolie or someone*

Tuesday next? I'm about half-way. Have cut a GREAT DEAL. EUF.
not your typical annihilatrixfuriosity on May 25th, 2005 01:03 pm (UTC)
Cliche is not an evil word, it's an evil concept. It's evil because overuse leads to lazy writing (and lazy writing is boring writing).

And H/D shippers... we do need to stop kidding ourselves, but I have a long meta-post percolating in my brain on the subject. >.>
every Starbucks should have a polar bearscoradh on May 25th, 2005 01:07 pm (UTC)
But *clutches head*. There's only so many ways you can write this pairing. There's only so many ways they could get together and nobody except the BDSM peeps seem to go for the Draco is ACTUALLY a Dark dude one. In the end every single story -- in the whole world -- rests on some cliche... *cries*

Oh, good, 'cause you'd say it better'n I could. *beams*
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(no subject) - scoradh on May 25th, 2005 02:10 pm (UTC) (Expand)
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(no subject) - scoradh on May 25th, 2005 02:18 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - balfrog on May 27th, 2005 09:37 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - furiosity on May 25th, 2005 01:14 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - scoradh on May 25th, 2005 02:07 pm (UTC) (Expand)
gabbysun on May 25th, 2005 02:04 pm (UTC)
. . . far away from the cold night air!
What the person above me (TOO LAZY TO LOOK UP USERNAME I AM SO SORRY) said. It's not evil, just . . . people who can't contrive to add at least a tiny bit of creativity into it are considered lazy buttholes. (*is forcibly reminded of Robots, which seems to embody every movie cliché there is*

every Starbucks should have a polar bearscoradh on May 25th, 2005 02:08 pm (UTC)
Re: . . . far away from the cold night air!
This affears me. Remember Snakes and Ladders? (You're like the only person who's read it, um...) That whole plotline was a HUGE FAT CLICHE and I never realised. *wibbles*

On behalf of the durn crazy H/D (good call, btw!) I most 'umbly 'pologise. xD
Re: . . . far away from the cold night air! - gabbysun on May 25th, 2005 04:57 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: . . . far away from the cold night air! - scoradh on May 28th, 2005 07:55 am (UTC) (Expand)
Liz_eliza_b on May 25th, 2005 02:39 pm (UTC)
First of all, your icon is hilarious. As always.

Second of all...better a cliched pairing than something that's totally outrageous for the sake of being original. I read a Hermione/Dobby one once (though it might have been a joke. hopefully).

sputz_n_micah on May 25th, 2005 02:49 pm (UTC)
You think that's bad? Somewhere on ff.net is a Neville/Trevor fic that I read a year or so ago. I have still not fully recovered.
(no subject) - gabbysun on May 25th, 2005 04:41 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - scoradh on May 28th, 2005 07:56 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - scoradh on May 28th, 2005 07:56 am (UTC) (Expand)
Rosefourth_rose on May 25th, 2005 03:05 pm (UTC)
Tell you what? When I first found "Snakes and Ladders" on FA, I thought something along the lines of "Oh no, not another 'Draco is a teacher at Hogwarts' fic" because it's, well, a cliché.

Then I read the story, and it was captivating and original and there were no clichés to be found at all! So I think it's all about a writer's ability - like someone above said, every possible scenario has been written a thousand times in the history of literature. But how you write it and what you do with your story is unique - and if you know what you're doing, it's going to be a good story.

Kidding ourselves? Only if we think it's ever gonna happen in canon, and I really don't think many H/D shippers do. Apart from that, everything is possible - and it's totally up to us to make it happen! ;)
every Starbucks should have a polar bear: Possibilityscoradh on May 28th, 2005 07:59 am (UTC)
Aha, sometimes it was people had read 'Harry's kid at Hogwarts' fics and I was wondering, where did they find them? Because I'd actually never come across one -- the idea, certainly, but never concrete fic. *shrugs*

Yes; I mean, if I look back at Maya's stuff, there's one fic with Spin the Bottle -- yet, she could write about boiling cabbage and make it way interesting. She's just THAT BRILLIANT. :)

This is where fandom rules over canon, methinks ... *points to icon*
M: Ickle Diddykinsvaguely_dirty on May 25th, 2005 03:43 pm (UTC)
You know, I think cliches are only bad because people write them that way. I'd love to see a nicely written cliche for one, even if it means Draco is Head Boy and Hermione's Head Girl and they share a dorm then suddenly fall in love. Of course, it'd be nice if people didn't automatically have to two screwing right into next Thursday two seconds after the closing of the doors o.0!
every Starbucks should have a polar bearscoradh on May 28th, 2005 08:00 am (UTC)
O -- I mean Harry/Draco, should have labelled it clearer. :) But no mind, I was once a Hr/D-er, too. And yes, that old chestnut came up very often -- but at the same time, if the writer kept the story and writing intersting in and of itself, I was happy to read it. You have to make the 'adjoining rooms' a source of UST, not Le Grande Sex, p'raps?
kabeyk on May 25th, 2005 05:25 pm (UTC)
Surely there isn't an H/D shipper out there that truly believes that it could be canon...? Surely.

Cliches rock because you can twist them, and fuck with peopleses mindses. That's why I wrote a game of Truth or Dare into The Dating Disasters of Sirius Black and then didn't have R and S kiss. That is totally the reason I did it. It wasn't actually because I really wanted James to kiss Remus, oh no.

Also, nothing is evil so long as it's well-written, so you don't need to worry about writing cliches at all, missy.

every Starbucks should have a polar bearscoradh on May 28th, 2005 08:02 am (UTC)
No -- I meant about the fact that the whole ship is built from cliche. :)

Oooh, yes, that was so hot -- *licks lips in remembrance*. I see you've new one, so when I'm allowed, actually, to be on internets I shall read. Oh, but padfootnprongs is practically dead, I'm afraid -- but you wrote J/S!!! *loves*
(no subject) - kabeyk on May 28th, 2005 08:52 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - scoradh on May 28th, 2005 03:48 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Mithmithborien on May 25th, 2005 11:08 pm (UTC)
Cliche is an evil word because it's not spelt the way it sounds. Although I do like saying it :P

And I tend to stay out of the H/D pairing so can't really comment there.
every Starbucks should have a polar bearscoradh on May 28th, 2005 08:02 am (UTC)
Yeah, it's like cleesh, innit?

What ship d'you sail, then?
(no subject) - mithborien on May 28th, 2005 08:06 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - scoradh on May 28th, 2005 03:34 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - mithborien on May 30th, 2005 01:05 am (UTC) (Expand)
Jax: obi-wan/anakin give it babyimadra_blue on May 26th, 2005 01:39 am (UTC)
Well, since I am no doubt the source of this entry, I'll comment and say that a cliche is not necessarily bad. Some of them are atrocious in conception, but a lot of that is also taste and wholly subjective. It's also about how well you write them. I have a few cliche turns of phrase I'm awfully fond of. If you like something, say it loud and say it proud. If you don't, whine, grouse, and moan. Don't be afraid to express yourself. :D

Good luck on edits, love. *hugs*

Meh, H/D is so last year. It's all about Obi-Wan/Anakin now.
every Starbucks should have a polar bearscoradh on May 28th, 2005 08:04 am (UTC)
I am reconciled to our fic now, so nevermindey. I was just wondering why ... bugger it was so long ago, and I've slept away half my memory and buried the rest in filing, so I can't say. *shrugs* The fic is a lot better, though, thanks to you.

NOOOO! *drags you back to the Potterverse*
(no subject) - imadra_blue on May 28th, 2005 02:54 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - scoradh on May 28th, 2005 03:38 pm (UTC) (Expand)
amazing vaguely humanoid armadilloperson: zombie armadillocryptid on May 27th, 2005 05:44 pm (UTC)
I ramble at you, yea mightily!
I cannot say. Or, well, I could theorise about it, but not likely come up with something new. But I can make random notes about things that leapt into my small brain while reading up on your last couple of months worth of entries. Just a few select ones, acoz otherwise this reply would EAT THE WORLD omg. (Bah, it's so st00pid going incommunicado like that. I miss too many neat opportunities of discussion.)

Re: the physical appearance of fictional characters. (Yish, that one's old, but I thought it too much fun to shut up about.) I don't like to read about living Barbie and Ken dolls, but I do like physical traits that set the characters apart somehow. I think it's equally annoying to read a generic description of someone's beauty as to just have someone described as 'average-looking'. Hey, even people that do look very average aren't clones of each other. They have their distinguishing characteristics, and just a couple of details can make them come alive. Like, does he have a narrow nose and arched eyebrows? Does she have a few pox-scars on her right cheek, and a high forehead? Things like that will make me visualise the person a lot clearer than a mention of their hair colour. Actually, I think the same goes if you're writing about beautiful people (who might very well be interesting to read about as long as it's not treated like 'OMG he's so gorgeous and therefore perfect in every respect and you must worship him now kthx!!!!1!). Granted, generic descriptions of beauty does give me a mental image: that of a dress mannequin. Even beauty can look very different and appeal to different people, and not exclude 'flaws' such as a too wide mouth or freckles in abundance. One guy can look at the heroine with her crazy cheekbones, slanted eyes and nubian skull shape under her cropped hair and go *THUD!* <3, while his buddy might look at her and say 'Meh, I prefer them less angular.'
(Personally, I'm far too fond of scars, missing limbs, body modification and people who just look off somehow, but I realise that it's not exactly realistic or even desirable to make everyone look like that. :P )

Re: your first fic. And the Cho-hate. You were f0nneh when you were sixteen, damn you. Bit unpolished, perhaps, but the seed to your current style was definitely planted. Sexy drag queen Voldie, hee hee. :>
And Cho does get panned way more than she deserves. Sure, I can understand Harry's frustration with her (even if he didn't exactly handle everything very well either), but it's a far cry from 'they weren't right for each other and started off on the wrong foot' to 'she's an evil manipulative cry-baby who deserves to die'. She's just a pretty, non-Suevian and at the moment pretty damn messed-up sixteen-year-old girl. Yes, Marietta acted like a right git about the DA, and rationally speaking Cho should've seen that, but you know, someone can mess up one thing majorly and, gasp shock, still be a basically good person. What do we know about Cho's relationship with Marietta? She obviously needed someone to support her after Cedric's death, and Harry didn't do a very good job at it. Perhaps Marietta was that support, that person she could lean on and trust to just listen and care and be there. Seamus was forgiven for being wrong about Harry, wasn't he? And Marietta never had his opportunity to get to know Harry and know whether he was trustworthy or just the half-mad attention whore the Daily Prophet painted him as.

(I totally made myself crave Cho/Marietta femmeslash with the previous paragraph. Damn. :P )

(Egads, this very nearly did eat the world even as it is. It became too long to fit into one reply. o.O )
amazing vaguely humanoid armadillopersoncryptid on May 27th, 2005 05:57 pm (UTC)
Ramble II: The sequel!
Re: movie-adaptations worthy of salvation. What about A Series of Unfortunate Events? I will admit to not having read any of the books, but I saw the movie a couple of weeks ago and was quite charmed. Prettiest end titles evar, possibly. And, um, Sense and Sensibility? I mean, come on. Alan Rickman! Emma Thompson! Hugh Laurie! I would say Kate Winslet, but even her loveliness couldn't make Marianne non-annoying. :P

And I saw this comment... I don't mind the Disney films so much, I suppose because they really ARE supposed to be for kids. ... and I thought about a few of the pre-Grimm/Perrault versions of famous fairy tales that I've read. Specifically Little Red Riding Hood and Sleeping Beauty -- in case you're interested, here's an early version of the tale that later became Little Red Riding Hood (pretty much exactly the version that is retold in The Sandman, issue #14, although as opposed to with Snow, Glass, Apples, Neil didn't have to add to the nastiness of that one), and here's an article about Sleeping Beauty's gruesome origins. Trust me, the Neil comes a lot closer to the spirit of them than Disney does. And I'm sure you're aware that that little lady in your mood icons didn't actually live Happily Ever After. Or at all. ;P

And yes. Why did Harry not Accio the Egg? And why didn't I think of that before now? O_o

(That a Terry Boot/Harry fic down there, btw? Might be interesting, if I can find the time to read it. Go Ravenclaw! *shakes pompoms*)
Re: Ramble II: The sequel! - scoradh on May 28th, 2005 08:09 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Ramble II: The sequel! - cryptid on May 28th, 2005 05:57 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Ramble II: The sequel! - scoradh on May 29th, 2005 03:12 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Ramble II: The sequel! - cryptid on May 29th, 2005 08:22 am (UTC) (Expand)
And now for something completely different... - cryptid on May 29th, 2005 08:45 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: I ramble at you, yea mightily! - scoradh on May 28th, 2005 08:06 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: I ramble at you, yea mightily! - cryptid on May 28th, 2005 03:47 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: I ramble at you, yea mightily! - scoradh on May 28th, 2005 04:11 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: I ramble at you, yea mightily! - cryptid on May 28th, 2005 06:17 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: I ramble at you, yea mightily! - scoradh on May 29th, 2005 03:15 am (UTC) (Expand)
JRevalangui on June 20th, 2005 06:36 am (UTC)
I absolutely agree with your icon^^